A Parent Playbook Resource
Live Q & A with Rosalee Lahaie Hera
Recorded May 27 2021
Rosalee Lahaie Hera, BArtSc, MBA, PhD(abd)
Certified Sleep Consultant
Recorded May 27, 2021
Thank you for coming.
So any questions that you have about sleep, that is what I am here to, to address for you. So I Rosely many of you know, me, some of you don’t and I am a certified sleep consultant and a Cedar certified pediatric sleep consultants. So I covered the first six years of life, and I’m also also additionally certified in newborn sleep.
So I love to help little ones before the sleep issues crop up. Usually at a bit that three to four month mark, I love to work with little bits right away. First couple of weeks of life. There’s so much stuff that we can do in the beginning to prevent sleep issues and gently correct sleep issues, existing sleep issues.
I’m also a certified potty training consultant, but we’re going to talk about sleep today. So I’m going to jump right in. We’ve got about an hour and I do like to start and end on time as much as possible, and I will get through as many of your questions as possible.
Okay, Eva, you said nine months old is down to two naps, but how do I make nap to longer than 40 minutes for naps? That’s one and a half hours. Should I extend week window after nap One? What is ideal week winded before bed?
So I don’t know if some of you are following on our better sleep bundle on the parent playbook website. If you aren’t already, I would definitely download that because you’ve got a ton of our most recommended sleep schedules, age-appropriate week windows ways to make naps longer.
That’s a really great bundle, but for this Ivana, without knowing much more, a couple of things to consider, if you’re a little one is a fresh nine-month-old, it’s actually possible that she’s not ready for two naps. If she consistently takes one nap shorter than the other, by a lot, right under an hour. And sometimes if we’ve dropped an up too soon, this can happen.
And what we don’t want to do is sort of persist with the two nap schedule if this continues to happen, because we can drive ourselves into chronic early morning wakings in the five o’clock hour, which I know not a review on. I definitely don’t want didn’t want when my babies were little. So that’s one thing to consider. The other thing is typically I will recommend a three to three and a half hour, week window before nap too.
So if you’re using that and you’re still getting the short nap, then it is possible that she wasn’t ready for those two nap, that two nap schedule.
So there is a, there are a couple of things to do. And the ideal week went up before bed, by the way is no more than three hours. So hopefully that helps.
But yeah, always considered that you want to delay nap transitions as long as you can. So for the three to two nap transition, I say, hang on until nine months, nine months or longer, if you can, babies typically do better with Nat transitions, the longer you wait, all right.
Okay. Jeremy said, how can I get my 14 month old to sleep without crying it out?
Well, so let’s cover the basics first, right? Jeremy. So you need a perfectly sleep conducive environment. So the room needs to be a hundred percent pitch black. It needs to be cool enough. You need to be happy, have continuous noise going on. I recommend ocean noises or bane noises, which are noise at this age. We need to have a consistent routine, which is about 20 to 30 minutes every night before bed, very consistent Dominick Dunne.
In the same order, we need to be on an age appropriate sleep schedule, 14 months old, two solid naps, wake windows, no longer than three to four hours, including before bed. And for us could be actually quite long for 14 month old for some 14 month olds before bed, to make sure that we have the right conditions for sleep beyond that.
In terms of independence, there are so many different ways that you can get little ones to fall asleep independently. At this age, what I would say is you have to first identify what it is. Your little one needs to fall asleep right now, and then wean off that.
So let’s say your little one needed to be rocked to sleep at this age, right? We could gently and gradually being them off of the movement to sleep until we’re just holding them to sleep until we’re just cuddling them while they stand up in their crib.
A lot of times these little ones at this age are standing in their cribs and we’re just cuddling them. And so anything, wherever your starting point is, you want to think about getting them away from that help.
Once you get to the point where they’re in their crib, awake, falling asleep, happily, confidently, calmly on their own. That’s where the magic begins, right? And that’s where we fall asleep without crying. We’re happy. We’re confident. We fall asleep and we stay asleep because we know what we did at that time. We know we were able to scan or safe sleep environment.
We were able to get ourselves to sleep. So in the middle of the night, when we store through a light period of sleep, just like us as adults might adjust her pillow, get right back to sleep. That’s how we’re able to do that as a child. So you do not have to do cry it out. Absolutely not, but gradually moving away from whatever it is that they need to sleep as the best thing to do for all age groups.
In fact, you can do a more of a rip, the bandaid off approach. Absolutely. But most of the families that I work with prefer to do things a little bit more gradually and you know, it does take a little bit more time, but it can be just as effective. And if you’re looking to not do cried out, that’s a way to do that.
Okay, Joyce, you said, when should I transition to one nap? My 16 month old has been refusing her second nap for about two weeks. Now. She usually sleeps from seven, seven 30 to 6:37 AM. First stop around 10, 10 30, and then will refuse to take a second nap or end up napping at four, four 30 to five. Should I focus on shifting her to one nap now? And if so, what are the best practices I should follow?
So that’s a great question, Joyce. And just as I said, we wanted to lean up transitions as much as possible, 16 months old. It’s tricky. I would actually do a few scheduled tweaks first before I would jump to transitioning to one that per day.
So what I would do is get her up by no later than six 30, try a set schedule of two, one hour cap to nap. So 10 to 11, three to four. So a nice wide four hour awake window in between naps. Make sure that first stop is no more than an hour on the dot. Sometimes we even have to shorten that to 45 minutes to make sure we have enough pressure for the second nap.
And yes, if any of you have this question of it really better to give them less sleep in the day to hold onto two naps a day, versus giving them more sleep in the day and get them on a one, not schedule. Yes it is. Because remember when you transitioned to a one nap schedule, you’re going to drop an entire sleep period, which is already going to be quite tiring for your little one. And they’re going to have to survive six hours of awake time in the morning. That’s the ideal awake time in the morning before an ideal nap, time of 1230.
So I would delay that choice with those tweaks. And then when you are ready, you can gradually move out to the time of the first nap, 15 minutes later, every few days to get it to be later to that 1230 target time.
And then when you transitioned to one nap, assuming they’re fully developmentally ready, we want to wake window before bed of no more than four hours. Typically constancy said, just turn to still wakes up two to three times a night. I’m still breastfeeding her at night.
I don’t know if you have a question. There are constants. Let me know if you do, if this is a good situation for you and you are okay with it, then that’s great. I always say, you know, you don’t have a sleep problem until you think you have a sleep problem. Right?
Okay. Marina, 13 months old self sous to sleep in five to 10 minutes, sleeping through the night for three months, night’s sleep eight 30 to 9:00 PM to six 30 to 7:00 AM. First nap, nine 30 to 10:00 AM for two hours. Second nap, three to 3:30 PM for one and a half to two hours a week ago, we traveled for two days and baby skipped. Second nap, second day nap for the past week. It’s impossible to put him to sleep for a second nap.
Well, this sounds like a familiar question and then sleeps for 30 minutes backs any suggestions on how to be in state his second nap back to one to two hours as before, how can we have him fall asleep for a second nap easily?
So the thing is, is that your travel may have also coincided with this little one’s sleep pressure shifting. So his drive to sleep shifting, which is totally normal and developmentally on track for this age group. So that may be what is happening. And I wouldn’t actually expect a little one at this age to take two, two hour naps. That’s a lot of daytime sleep and usually means we’re kind of shorting them on nighttime sleep, which is the most important.
So similar to what I said before, what I would do is cop your first nap at no more than an hour. You use a four hour a week period between apps, excuse me. And that should help to at least get that second nap happening again. I’m just going to take a sip of water. One second. That should.
Okay. Jessica, you said your daughter’s two and a half years. You’ve been working on sleeping in her new room and big girl bed for over a month. Now she still gets up a few times, excuse me, before falling asleep and relies on my husband and I to walk her back to bed, laying her back down before falling asleep. This causes her to fall asleep around 8:00 PM. She’s now waking up a few times overnight and early waking before 6:00 AM. I really missed the 7:00 AM. Wake up when she was in her crib. Any advice on getting my toddler to stay in her bed from put down to overnight and not wake up early. I have baby number two coming in July.
So Jessica, I would not have moved to two and a half year old into a big girl bed. I’m sorry. I want these kids at this age to be in a crib.
They don’t have impulse control to know that they should stay in their bed. It is the rare little one where this crypto to bed transition goes well at this age. So I don’t know if she was a crib jumper, but there’s many things we can do to prevent crib jumping so we can use a sleep sack. We can lower mattress all the way down and we can make sure we have a chunky crib or one side is higher than the other.
And we put the higher side away from the wall and preferably in the corner of the room. This is how we’re going to keep kids in their cribs as long as we can. Because remember when we then moved to a room, you have to think of the entire room as their crib. Now that’s what it is.
So, you know, they still have that impulse to roam around, but it’s now within this bigger space. And if they certainly have an ability and access to opening the door, they’re going to roam even farther, right? So it’s very hard at this age.
I wouldn’t expect you to get anything different from what you’re getting. The other thing that can happen at this age is that the nap then can be too long or too late and start to cause bedtime to come become later and later suck.
That could also be interfering with bedtime becoming leader and early rising coming in as well. But I would say move her back into a crib. And there’s absolutely no reason to not want to do that. It’s not like you failed or anything like that. It’s very tough at this age and baby number two coming, you can get another crib for baby number two, right?
Or they’ll be in a bassinet at the beginning anyway.
So I would say I have a blog to you on this that I will share with you before we go. I got to remember to share that and the bundle with all of you on the crib to toddler bed or big bet transition, but we really want to delay this again. One of my approaches is delay delay, delay.
Okay, Jenny, you said your nine month old, nine week old, sorry. Baby is allergic to sleep at Navy consistently sleeps an hour and a half to two hours and easily goes back to sleep between feeds during the day we pay attention to week widows follow the same routine and he falls asleep quickly, but we accept the second we put him down or has very short naps. What do we do if you miss a week window, any wakes up after a short nap?
So Jenny, this is totally 100% developmentally appropriate. A nine week old. I would not expect them to sleep for longer than 30 minutes or even less than that. If you put them down, especially if they’re asleep before you put them down. So you’ve transferred them.
Transfers are very unreliable as about six weeks or so.
They’re always going to sleep better on you and sleep longer. That way, if they haven’t yet learned independency skills, this is why I love working with newborns, because if we can teach them these skills and very age appropriate, gentle gradual ways before this time, you won’t be, you be getting longer naps right at this time.
But even some independent sleepers at this age are not taking longer naps because their sleep cycles just have not matured. So this is totally not. I’m allergic to sleep. I promise you, but to answer your question, if you miss a week window, so if you have him waking up earlier than 30 minutes, I would adjust the next week window by 15 minutes with 15 minutes shorter.
And if you ever get any of those crappy naps where they’re 15 minutes or shorter, we want to have the next week window. So cut it in half. Hopefully that helps.
And Jen, you asked me, thank you for taking time hosting and answering questions. My pleasure.
I’m a first-time mom to an old seven month old boy. We’re struggling with naps. We just finished the training nights too. Not too long ago. It took over two weeks. However, we kept ops the same as we did before. So he wouldn’t be overtired. Excellent. That’s a great choice. You co-sleep for an ops and he’s on a three nap schedule. Week windows are two, two to two and a half, two to three, two and a half. He usually wakes within 30 minutes and then I’d have to patch shush nursing back to sleep. It usually works for the first nap, full awake after one and a half hours. But his second nap is a real struggle to extend. Usually 30 to 40 minutes. We’ve tried extending his week window, but he still wakes within 30 minutes. His third apps always 30 minutes.
So first of all, Jen 30 minutes, final nap is all we’re looking for. We don’t need more than that. Now, I think from what you’ve told me, the nap links are more to do with his independent sleep skills rather than the schedule itself.
But I’ll tell you what I recommend for a seven month old on a three nap schedule two and a half hours prior to that one with nap one happening no earlier than 9:00 AM, two and a half hours prior to nap, two, two and three quarter hours prior to nap three. And depending on the seven month old and how well they’re sleeping anywhere from two to two and a half hours before bedtime. So that is a magic seven month, three nap schedule. But from what you’ve said, because you are assisting him for sleep and assisting him back for sleep for naps, this is probably more to do with his independence.
So if you’re able to get to the point where you can put them down a week and then encourage one of the longer nap techniques that I have in the Sikh bundle, which I can go over here too, with you, if you want, if you would like, then you’re going to be getting the longer naps for naps one and two, that being said at seven months old, I don’t expect much more than about an hour for the first two naps.
And that’s totally fine cause it keeps the pressure nice and high for that third nap to happen, which should absolutely be happening every single day at seven months old. So hopefully that makes sense. Vivian, you said your nine months old has been eating a SUSE feed around 4:30 AM.
For some time. This usually buys us another two or so hours wake time at six 30 to six 45. And it makes his day schedule a lot more manageable. If he wakes past five 30, we’re in this danger zone, because then he just becomes fully awake and we’ll go back to sleep. I’ve been gradually weaning him by reducing the minutes of nursing.
We’re down to three minutes of this speed. I’m worried that once we’ve been off, he’ll just wake up early. Cause he’s hungry. I didn’t get up to feed him a few nights ago and he ended up waking up at five 50. Anything we can do to avoid this situation. He goes to bed at seven to eight week windows or three to three, three to three and three quarter hours on two naps.
So Vivian, you heard me before about the two nap schedule at this age sometimes causing early waking. So first and foremost, I would consider going back to a three nap schedule.
If he’s not taking two nice long naps, like one and a half hour long naps, if he’s not doing that, it could be contributing to this issue. Second is he upset at 5:50 AM. If he’s not upset and you can just leave him until six 30, eventually his body will adjust to waking up at that time. So little ones do all sorts of things in the early morning, they babble, they move around. They could even be like eyes, open eyes closed.
And sometimes that can be just light sleep, which is really great for them. And if, even if you’re not getting late sleep, let’s say they’re kind of, you know, awake, but we’re not quite sure that’s okay too, because they’re still getting melatonin. If they’re in the nice dark room with the noise machine going, which is very beneficial to them and they’re still getting extra rest, which is also really beneficial to them.
So if he’s not awake, I would just say, don’t worry about it. The gradual reducing of nursing, it does work. Sometimes it doesn’t always work for all kiddos. I would really take a look at the entire, the entire sleep schedule and just make sure, like, especially now that you’re saying actually Vivian, now that you’re saying he goes to bed as late as seven 30 to eight on two naps, I really want to know what his nap schedule is.
Can you actually chat me again and tell her what his nap schedule is? And I’m going to come back to this because I feel like something’s off with his nap schedule. If you don’t mind doing that for me, but for anybody else going through this, another technique that you can use is to Institute a dream feeding. So if that feeding is becoming later, later, later in the night, and you’re kind of like, eh, it’s tricky. Sometimes you weeks later, sometimes earlier you can set an alarm. I know it’s not fun, but set an alarm for 3:00 AM, feed him. And while he’s still sleeping, he can wake up and that’s okay, put him back down. And that should be enough to reset the sleep cycles and push out his morning wake-up time. So it could be a little bit more predictable for you too, until he’s able to drop that completely.
Jenny said I’d like to start nap training, but I don’t know where to start. As I’m afraid, this ruins night’s sleep. Yeah. I mean, as long as nighttime sleep is solid. So, you know, little one is falling asleep independently from wide awake at bedtime. They’re falling asleep within less than 30 minutes. Their nighttime sleep has improved dramatically.
It’s okay to move on to nap. I would do one nap at a time first stop of the day, hold our best chance of success. Let’s start with nap one. Cause the homeostatic sea pressure’s really high once. You’ve nailed that one go on to nap too. And I wouldn’t bother with nap three onwards because those ones are harder to get independently. And we don’t really care about them being independent because they go away eventually anyway.
So I would just focus on one at a time, not one first, then nap two. And that shouldn’t destabilize. It kind of sleep too much. Hopefully that helps any.
You said your son just turned one. You wakes up at 3:30 AM consistently. We normally put him down between seven to seven 30. I was told I’m putting him down to lady weeks at six 30. I need your advice.
So I don’t know what his schedule is and if he’s going down independently.
So again, we want to look at all our basics being covered. So I have a perfectly safe conducive environment. Do I have in each purpose steeped schedule, which at this speech would be two solid naps, seven to seven 30 may not be too late. If he’s getting two solid naps in his day, if though he’s taking two short naps or a short only one nap, then that would be too late and he could be going down over tired.
And is that little one going down awake at that time? Because that is really the key for good night’s sleep. That they’re going down independently at bedtime.
So that if there’s any disturbances overnight, they’re able to work through that and get themselves back to sleep. Jeremy said your three-year-old slept 12 hours from four months till two and a half years old.
Now that we transitioned him to a big boy bed, it takes three hours to put him down half. Yes. And he will wake up through the night and run into our room. So we need to go back in his room and lay with him until he falls asleep. Yeah. So Jeremy, you heard what I said about transitioning to big kid bed at this age.
We really want to hold off. We want little ones at this age to be in their cribs for as long as possible. And it doesn’t surprise me that it’s taking you so long. The other thing, like I said before, his nap could be too late or too long at this age. So we want to think about cutting it down.
Especially if it’s around two hours or more at this age, it’s going to be messing with your sleep even an hour and a half. Now, sometimes at this age can mess with your nighttime sleep. So think about those things. But with the bed, we just, I’m going to post my blog about this, but we just walk them back over and over again, make it clear that that’s the only place for them to sleep.
And it will take you a lot of times the first few nights, which is also why I say keep them in their cribs as long as possible, but eventually he will get it.
Okay. I have another question here.
I don’t know what your name is, but it says I have a seven month old, seven month old. And the last week we have gone from four to two to three wake-ups by resettling her without milk for one wake-up per night. I was wondering how many times we can do this. Can we infer sleeping right through one time she only woke twice. So I only fed her once we purchased your workshop videos to try to follow other tips.
Oh great. That’s good that you did the workshop video. So yeah, I mean, at this age at seven months old, I would aim as long as your little one is healthy and gaining weight.
Well and building up on iron rich and protein, rich solids in the day, I would aim for two wakings a night maximum for feeding.
So I would definitely work toward that. But if you’re working on independence, so putting a little wind down a week at bedtime and building that independent CIF skillset, she will drop her feedings on her own. So we know that independent sleepers drop their feedings overnight on their own far, sooner than other little ones who don’t have that same skill set. So you could choose to just focus on that and allow those feedings to be dropped. Naturally.
If she’s already an independency, bring you’re still getting two, three wake-ups, then I would stick to no more than two. And hopefully that helps.
Amy three week baby with a cleft lip and palate. So we’re not using a pacifier for suiting right now. She seems to be stuck on me for comfort. Since she also can’t breastfeed anything we can do to help with nighttime sleeping safely to avoid co co-sleeping.
Yeah. Any I told like this is exactly what I do with three week goals is let’s get these kids sleeping in their own space safely. That is my priority as well.
Don’t worry about not needing a pacifier because honestly, if you don’t have to introduce a pacifier, don’t do it because we can get into so many sleep issues with having to replace that passive are all over and over and over again, which becomes a complete dependency that is very hard to drop. So actually be happy that you’ve got the situation you’ve got. You don’t need to use a pacifier for seeding.
And so in terms of getting her sleeping safely, it’s really all the things I just said before. So making sure you’ve got the right environment, you’ve got a routine you’re following week. When does, at this age, they should be no longer. She shouldn’t be awake for longer than 45 to 60 minutes at any stretch. Sometimes she might be sleeping or eyes closed on a feeding.
We count that as an app. That’s okay. Anything that you can do to get her to sleep in the day in those wake windows is going to help. And then at night, what we want to do is have a safe space for her. So bassinet and we can warm up the bassinet before we put her down, we could put something that smells like you in the bassinet before we put her down.
But honestly, any it’s really just about repetition and practice. It takes a long time. At first you lose sleep because you’re trying to reinforce this safe space, but it does work. I do this all the time with newborns. It is about repetition and practice and continuing to put her down over and over and over again so that she understands that’s her space.
And it, yeah, like I would recommend trading off with a partner or if you have any other kinds of support, but really working on that is what the ticket is. Essentially, along with a real understanding and application of all the sleep science involved as well.
Like I just had, am I, you said how long a week window do you suggest for three-year-old?
So three-year-olds are mostly on a set schedule. They may still have a nap in the day. I typically find by three years old naps that are longer than an hour to an hour and a half start to interfere with nighttime sleep. So you have to think about like every little one is different, but you have to think about that if they have a nap in their day, that time is usually kind of later.
So anywhere from seven to eight 30, depending if they don’t have an app in their day or they’ve just dropped a nap, then bedtime can be quite early.
So as early as asleep by six to 6:30 PM, so that we’re enabling as much overnight sleep as possible.
Okay. Johnny said, we’re about to start sleep training are almost three months old and we’re wondering if you have any tips or tricks to getting him a solid sleep. We’re also struggling to get our little one to sleep longer for 30 and then 30 minutes for naps.
So hopefully John, I’ve covered a lot of things already on this talk, but have your basics in place. Because if you don’t have a solid sleep conducive environment, a great age appropriate schedule, a consistent bedtime routine, then your efforts toward independent sleep are not going to come as easily or quickly and may involve more crying and protesting and upset, then it needs to.
So that’s really what I would focus on is that whole 24 hour day applying the correct sleep science, don’t worry about naps for now. I would say start with nights, move on to naps. The way that I had talked about earlier, make sure we don’t destabilize nights by trying to move toward more independence in the naps too soon and 30 minute naps at this age are totally par for the course little ones are going through the sleep wake cycle maturation process at this age, which means that their sleep wake cycles have not matured.
They don’t know how to connect them yet. So from about three to seven months, even a solid independent sleeper will take short naps independently.
So I’m going to post the information about the bundle, but there’s different longer nap techniques you can take once a little one is falling asleep independently. That’s actually the key, hopefully that helps.
Stacy. You have a five equals currently have her in my bedroom would like to keep it that way for a while, six months. Ideally we have a TV in our room that we watch before bed. At what point should I be concerned about this negative Lee effecting her? Should I move her to a room sooner than six months?
Thank you. Great question, Stacy. So I would not use a TV in your room. I would get yourself a video monitor and go watch TV somewhere else. It’s not actually good for your sleep hygiene either.
So there’s blue light involved, which is going to disrupt your melatonin production and her melatonin production. And if it hasn’t yet, it likely will between six to eight weeks when they become more alert and alive to the world.
And when their circadian rhythm becomes more set like adult Steve. So, you know, very soon it’s probably going to start affecting her and not to mention, I don’t know if you’re using a volume at all, but that can also affect her too. So I would keep that out of the room. I wouldn’t use that in terms of moving her to her own room, let’s review safe, sleep guidance.
So the ABCs of safe sleep are the most important. So I am alone. I’m always placed on my back. Initially, if I get to my belly on my own and a hundred percent safe sleep space, just a fitted sheet, just an infant mattress, nothing on or modified or in the crib, then I’m allowed to stay on my belly.
You don’t have to roll me back, but I’m always initially placed on my back so alone on my back and in a crib or bassinet. If you’re following the ABCs of safe sleep, you have reduced your risk of SIDS to almost zero you’re dramatically reducing the risk of SIDS, but room sharing with a little one in a separate safe space in the room, same room as you is a protective factor, just like breast milk is a protective factor, but it doesn’t mean that if you move them out of the room before six months, that you’re increasing your risk of sets, you’re just keeping it at that nice baseline level for the population that is following the ABCs of safe sleep.
I know it’s a bit tricky to understand, but essentially what I’m saying is ABC to sleep, sleep are the most important.
And then if you can add a protective factor like breast milk, that’s great. Doesn’t mean that you also have to add room sharing and somehow doubles your protection. It doesn’t work that way. The other thing is some little ones get more disturbed sleep. A lot of little ones actually get more disturbed sleep when they’re in the same room as you.
And so a lot of parents actually resort to unsafe sleep practices by keeping them in the same room with you, like pulling them onto your chest, for example, which is very dangerous. So in a lot of situations, moving them out of the room before that time, it’s actually safer.
Always discuss any concerns with your doctor, but the safe sleep guidelines. This is all from the safe sleep guidelines. So hopefully that helps.
Okay. Catch you on. You said my son just turned two. He naps 12 to two, 12 to two and is in bed by seven 30. He wakes at 7:00 AM. I recently noticed he’s not falling asleep until eight 20 to eight 30. My question is, do I reduce that or put into bed later, say APM, I don’t want them waking in the morning before seven. I want to keep that the same.
Yeah. So Katia and just as you heard, so around this age, this is when this can happen. It just means that sleep pressure is decreasing. That’s totally fine. And to answer your question, it’s actually up to your preference. If you would prefer an earlier bedtime, then you’ll need to cut the nap.
If you don’t, if you would prefer the two hour nap, don’t mind the leader bedtime, then just put him down later to aim for that eight 30 asleep. If your little one is ever falling asleep later than eight 30, then I would reduce the nap because eight 30 is kind of pushing it at that point.
Hopefully, that makes sense.
Joanne, how early can I start sleep training? My daughter she’s six weeks old. So sleep training. Joanne is a term that can be defined in so many different ways. What I want to say to you is you can teach your little one, encourage your little one to fall asleep independently without quote unquote traditional sleep training that involves not supporting your child, for example, at any age.
So like I said before, I work with little ones right from birth and we definitely don’t do any sort of traditional sleep training that you would think of that doesn’t involve a lot of soothing and comforting from parents. Everything is very, very involved in age appropriate and hands-on, but you can absolutely wean little ones away from needing so much help to sleep, get them to sleep more independently and improve their sleep as early as this age and earlier.
So hopefully that makes sense.
Emma, my three-year-old was a good steeper until my husband had an injury and we started all the bad crutches. We are getting back to normal by transitioning out of them. How long does this normally take?
Well first I’m sorry to hear about your husband.
I hope he’s on the mend. I mean, it really depends on so for some little ones, even one night of going back to old habits can really mess. It can sort of have a domino effect for weeks and months to come. You know, it really depends on the little one and four other little ones, you know, you can get right back on track right away.
So I would say it really depends on how long you’ve been in this pattern. It might take you just as long to get out of the pattern, if that makes sense, but stay consistent and you’ll get there. I’m just going to take another sip of water. Okay. Hi. Thanks for giving us tips and advice. My pleasure.
My daughter is three months old. I breastfeed her and pump as well in the beginning. She was fine with both, but she recently refused milk when she’s awake. When we want to feed her, when she is sleeping, she wakes up and cry. So we end up with no sleep and no feeding. How can I improve this habit?
I’m trying to understand this question, Liz.
I’m sorry. So she’s three months old, the breastfeeding her pump. She was fine with both to now she’s refusing milk. Oh, I see what you’re saying. So she only wants to feed when she’s sleeping. I think that’s what you’re talking about. Yeah. So this is a bit tricky because it depends on if you’re breastfeeding or not when she’s doing this.
So the reason I say that is we want to prevent you from getting clogged ducks and mastitis. I had mastitis five times across my kids and it was hell right. And interview that have had mastitis. You know what I’m talking about. So I always want to be careful about moving away from feeding to sleep so that we don’t inadvertently cause health issues that are very difficult to address.
So what I would say is I would gradually move that feeding earlier in your week window so that it’s happening when she’s awake, but you’re probably going do it need to do it gradually if she’s really insistent on doing this while she’s sleepy or asleep. So, you know, let’s say at three months old, we’ve got a week window.
That’s an hour and a half and you’re feeding her right at the end of this week, window, start to feed her 10 minutes earlier, 10 minutes earlier from there, 10 minutes early from there, maybe every few days. And she will gradually adjust.
Okay. Melanie said, Sigma, oops. I lost my spot. Hold on one second, boy, what happened here?
Let me get back to Melanie. Six month old can independently put himself to sleep, but is currently waking up every three hours to eat or snuggle. He never wanted just snuggles at night before now. Apps are generally good. Two hours, one to two hours and maybe a 30 minutes also waking at 6:00 AM, but time at six to seven.
Okay. First of all, Melanie makes sure that that maybe a 30 minutes is every day.
He’s having a third nap. If he’s having two hours in the morning for his first nap, there’s two things that could be going on here that are reinforcing issues at night. Your first app could be too early. And the second is, it is definitely too long because if you’ve got a two hour nap in the morning, that is going to decrease pressure for having all three naps to happen in the day.
So at six months, I would cut that first snap off at no more than an hour and a half. And make sure you get all three naps every single day. If you’re still getting the same issue overnight and a little one is wide awake at bedtime, then whatever you did to help make that happen at bedtime, we want to do for one of those weekends when they are closer to about seven months old, if they’re actually getting, if he’s actually getting three full feedings overnight, it’s not actually anything concerning or wrong because at this age, a lot of little ones are just getting used to solid, especially iron rich in protein, rich solids, which are really important for sleep.
And so he could be legitimately hungry three times a night. I would definitely cap it no more than three feedings. And if everything is okay, he’s healthy, all that and gaining weight.
But closer to seven months, we could then start to decrease this to two times per night maximum by doing whatever you did at that time to get independence established, doing that at one of those Wekings okay. Oh, you’re saying, I feel you at Jessica.
My three-year-old gets out of his bed. Rosely when would you suggest transitioning to a bet?
So I’m going to post that blog for you, but essentially hang on to the crib as long as you can. So Dr. Dina, I believe like has hung onto the crib till four years old plus, and would recommend that same things as long as you literally, as long as you can.
And you’ve done all my trips, ticks and tricks and tips for keeping them or in their crib and they’re still climbing.
Okay, well now at this point we have to get them out of there. And like I said, I’ll post that blog.
Elena, you have a 19 month old, who’s unable to fall asleep before eight 30 to nine at night, sometimes even nine 30. He has to wake up not later than seven to go to daycare. Is that okay please?
No, he doesn’t seem tired at all. Well, I mean, if he’s getting, you know, this situation could be happening. If he’s getting one really giant nap in his day or two bigger naps in his day, as long as that week window before bed is not more than four hours or so at this age, I’m not concerned.
I mean, I’d love to kind of get a little bit more night, 10 steep out of him, but if he’s making up for it in the daytime, then he’s still getting what he needs in a 24 hour period. Again, don’t fix, what’s not broken. If he’s hitting his milestones, you’re not super concerned, then it might be fine.
Joanne, is it safe to get my, give my four and a half year old son melatonin every day?
I definitely don’t give any sort of medication advice. I would definitely recommend talking to your doctor about that. I always prefer to tackle sleep challenges without medication, unless that is something that is prescribed and directed by a doctor for different reasons.
You know, some little ones with different developmental challenges might need it, but you have to talk to your doctor about that specifically.
Okay. Vivid Vivian. He gave, came back to me with the schedule. Okay. So your schedule is wakes at six 45 nap at 10 to 1130 and then three 15 to four 30. I’m God, I got to go scroll back to your question now, Vivian nine months all to that’s right. And then you’ve got those early wakings happening. Okay. So let me go back down to what you just told me. Thank you for your patience. All right. So, so you’ve got, what have you got there? You’ve got a three and a quarter hour, a week window before nap one. You’ve got a solid hour and a half first nap. Then you’ve got 12 one, two. So you’ve got right. Okay. So just over three and a half for nap too.
So the thing that’s happening here, it’s very interesting for Ben because he’s getting some good solid sleep in the day. And the only thing is I wouldn’t recommend the last nap, the second nap going later than four. Sometimes that actually can be contributing to early morning waking.
So I would shift your schedule a little bit differently. So I would actually have him asleep by nine 45 and awake a little bit earlier from that first nap so that you can have a second nap. That’s ending closer to four. Then with that, no more than three hour, week window before bed. But again, you know, your schedule is not that far off.
This could be contributing. It could not be. And so some of the things I was talking about before in terms of that waking could also be more applicable. Hopefully that makes sense and helps.
Jeremy. My 14 month old only takes one nap for about an hour and a half. Is it too early for him to only take one nap?
In my opinion, yes, Jeremy, I, I get a lot of calls from parents at about not to scare you. I don’t say anything to scare any of you just to empower you with information, but I get a lot of calls from parents with little ones around 19 to 21, 22 months where their kids are in this chronic early waking pattern, five o’clock hour wakings.
And when we do a little digging into the sleep history, almost always, this goes back to dropping a nap too early. So doing the two to one nap transition too early. So I just want to prevent little ones from getting into this situation. It’s a lot of time to be awakened the day with only an hour and a half of sleep in the day. So my opinion, yes.
Betty, if a six month old goes to bed earlier around 5:30 PM because of naps being short that day, we are doing one and a half, one and three quarter to two and a quarter hour, a week windows and dream feed at 11. She then wakes up at seven, which is her usual bedtime. What should we do? Can we accept that seven? All I see what you’re saying. Do we just Crip play or feed and skip any play or diaper change when they wake early in the morning, the next day? Cause they slept early and starts crying before scheduled week time. Do we start the day at that earlier time instead? Or just let baby cry?
So Betty again,
I will direct you to our better sleep bundle. I’m going to post that before we end so that you all have that information. But at this age I would suggest a slightly different schedule. Your, your recorders are a little bit off for my six month, six month olds.
And because they’re off, you’re inevitably gonna stay in this pattern of this early bedtime and this pattern of these early evening wakings in my opinion.
So at six months I would bump those first two week windows high. So two and a half hours before an app, one, two and a half hours before not too, you can do that gradually if you’d like two and a quarter hours before nap three and then no more than two hours before bed. I think if you would make those adjustments with the first half happening, no earlier than nine, we cannot base not one off an early morning rising.
Otherwise we’re just reinforcing that early morning, rising over and over again. So my, you know, if you do that, you probably will solve this issue because your bedtime is going to get closer to seven right away.
But to answer your question about the early waking, sorry, I need some more, some more water about the early weekend. We don’t want to start the day at that time, but you also don’t just need to leave your kid to cry until when you want them awake. So what we want to do is avoid food light and conversation until an ideal morning, wake up time of no earlier than six 30. That is the best thing to do in this case. Okay. Hopefully, that makes sense.
Anna. Okay. I want to just go back to what you said before, so I know who you are and what we talked about and okay. So you said forgot to add that he cries. As soon as we put him down and walk away, I find it’s been harder to put him down because of how much sunlight there is in the room. He does have two solid naps and he’ll be down by seven 30 to seven 45, but we’ll cry for 30 minutes to an hour. Forgot to add that he cries.
As, oh, you’ve already just said that. Okay. So absolutely there should be no sunlight in the room, right? It should be a hundred percent pitch-black for all of you before bed.
And we should be in a very, very dimly lit environment in the room that your child is going to go to sleep for at least 20 to 30 minutes before bed to produce melatonin at the right levels and to help wind down the nervous system.
That’s incredibly, incredibly important. So that may be a huge part of what’s going on here. Ana, other than that, probably behavioral and just needs consistency and practice with the independence.
Kevin, you said six year old will not go to sleep without mommy and bed. And if wakes up in the night will not go back to sleep without mommy.
Again, Kevin, I don’t know if you have a question here or if you want to change this situation, but at six years old, it’s really about creating clear boundaries, clear guidelines for what is acceptable with sleep, what the family would like in terms of getting to sleep on our own and just sticking to it a hundred percent consistently, even at six years old hundred percent consistency is really the ticket.
So it’s what is the expectation? Our bed is off the table. Now this is where you’re meant to sleep and reinforcing that over and over again.
I promise you, it is just repetition and consistency at any age. Okay?
Sabrina, your four-year-old struggles to fall and stay asleep. You’ve tried eight to eight 30 bedtime, nine to nine, 30 many times. She’ll toss and turn until after 10, sometimes 11 often wakes up between two to 5:00 AM screaming. We need to sit with her for an hour plus to get back to sleep. She’s exhausted and cranky. When I wake up in the, we turn TV off one hour before bedtime, have a bath and read a book for bedtime routine. She has rest time at daycare, but usually skips her nap. I’m worried she has insomnia.
So Sabrina, I would definitely at this age with all of these wakings, I would rule something out with your doctor that is medical, just to be safe. I’m not concerned specifically, but just to be safe, go get her checked out, make sure that they don’t have any concerns.
If they don’t have any concerns, then it might just be that we need to kind of reset her internal clock and try a much, much earlier bedtime, especially if she doesn’t see that all during the day.
My four year olds that I work with the dose the about all during the day, especially if they’ve just dropped a nap within the last year, that time is more around six 30 to seven. So it may be that we need to sort of gradually move her back and start to make sure that she’s getting that full night of sleep by doing that.
And also I’m just wondering about her independence and how much involvement there is in getting her to sleep at night.
If there is a lot of parental involvement, then weaning her off of that will also help her get that quality sleep. But first and foremost, I would just check off anything that you need to check off at the doctor before you start working on things behaviorally at this age.
Katelyn, can you speak more on crypto toddler, bed transition when it’s appropriate? What agent different tips and tricks.
Yeah, I’m going to post the web, the blog. Let me just do that now. I want to do that before you all go so that I have an opportunity to, okay. So think that it’s the one from my website, baby, sleep love, but there is going to be one on parent playbooks, you know, as well.
So I’ll just take this opportunity now to tell you, so the parent playbook is apparent membership that I run with Dr. Gina Kulak, who is a pediatrician, and I don’t run it alone with Dr. Dean. We have a team of child health, health experts that help us with this. And we help with anything from feeding behavior, sleep health topics.
So Dr. Dean is always talking about different health topics in the group and it’s run through a private Facebook group. So you joined a membership, you joined the Facebook group and all the questions that I’m answering for you today. I do that in the group. And so does Dr. Gina and so do our different experts. So I’m just going to post that blog for you now.
So just posted that blog and hope that helps. All right. Let me get back to the questions here. All right. Yeah. So Catan, I just posted that blog. So hopefully that helps that crib to bed blog. All right, let me see. Okay. And Evelyn, I just want to make sure I get to everyone’s question. So if I can give you some information that you can read,
I’d rather do that so I can get to all the questions. Hopefully that makes sense.
Evelyn, I have a three and a half year old. Who’s dropped her nap since she was two and a half. She’s going through a phase where she’s scared of the dark and needs someone to be in the room for her to fall asleep, without crying. She shares a room with her baby sister who’s 10 months. What can I do to help herself through the, not wake up? Her baby sister. She also wakes up one to two times at night and comes to our bed because she’s scared.
Okay. So again, three and a half years old, who’s dropped a nap. I would to be thinking about whether bedtime is early enough. I’ll also post I’m going to post a blog on sharing siblings, sharing a room.
Let me do that right now. So I don’t forget because there’s a lot of different considerations. Let me just post that for you, my blog on sharing a room and there’s that. And then the other thing that I would be thinking about, so she’s scared of the dark.
So it’s interesting because if you are having siblings sharing a room where one can legitimately be scared of the dark, for sure, three and a half years old, and the other one at 10 months cannot be scared of the dark and actually would be very well-served from a hundred percent pitch black room.
What I would suggest is a red hue nightlight, closer to where your three and a half year old seats, because red is a color on the spectrum that doesn’t disrupt the production of melatonin in the same way that blue, yellow, or sort of blue, green and white lights do. So I would do that.
And then in terms of her needing someone to stay in the room for her to fall asleep, we have to work on that too, because if we don’t work on that, you’re still likely to get those wake ups overnight.
Now, when I’m working with two little ones where they’re not both sleeping super well, and I see that in my sharing a room blog, I would actually separate them first to make sure they’re both sleeping well before combining them in the room together, because then otherwise they’re going to be disrupting each other quite a bit. But, you know, regardless of whether you have that option or not, it’s really about working on getting her to fall asleep on her own at bedtime.
So you can avoid the overnight weekends, a method and approach that works really well at this age is something where you are telling your little one, that you are going to just leave the room to do some laundry and I’ll come back and give you a kiss. If he keeps trying to stay asleep, trying to fall asleep.
So it’s referred to as like an excuse me, method or excuse me, approach really nice. And you have to keep fulfilling that promise. So if you say that you’re going to come back and check on them, come back and check on them, give them a kiss. Okay. So it’s a really nice way to kind of in a very reassuring way, get them to sleep more independently.
Over time, you lengthen the amount of time you stay out of the room and you shorten the amount of time you come into the room and they will eventually fall asleep while you’re out. I, it’s not easy. I’m saying it quickly, but it’s not easy. It’s a process, but you will get there if you’re consistent.
Marina, thank you for your help and advice. My pleasure. And then oops. Oh my goodness. I keep losing my spot. Sorry about that. Oh, catch you on. I already answered that question about the nap rate. Oh, you said how much do I reduce? Sorry, the two year old, how much do I reduce the nap or increase the bedtime 30 minutes. Less than an hour. Right?
So what I would suggest is if he’s able to fall asleep by eight 30, there’s no need to reduce the nap. If you want him to fall asleep earlier than try 15 minutes or shorter of a nap. So waking him up 15 minutes sooner from his nap until you get to the point where you are happy with the bedtime and the same thing.
If he’s ever falling asleep later than eight 30, then reduce that by 15 minutes until you get him to the point where he’s able to fall asleep by no later than eight 30. So hopefully that makes sense.
Amy east side, second question. I have a three-year-old who naps from one to 3:00 PM. We have told our daycare provider to start shortening the nap, but it doesn’t look like she’s listening. That time takes forever. We started 8:00 PM and most days don’t get down until nine 30. She wants us to stay in her room until she falls asleep. Anything we can do to cut the time down.
It’s the nap, Amy, I’m sorry to say, but a two hour nap for a three-year-old. I wouldn’t expect them to fall asleep until very late.
So we either have to be more firm with daycare provider, or we have to accept a liter bedtime because your little one just doesn’t have that pressure to fall asleep at bedtime. So of course she wants you there because she’s not tired enough. And so she wants to be entertained, right? So we have to work on the nap in order to work on an earlier bedtime.
If that makes sense.
Kevin, you said suggested week windows for 22 month old. Thank you. Yes. So Kevin, 22 months old, most little ones will be on one nap. There are some that are on two, but that’s more rare at 22 months.
So typically what I suggest is a set nap start time of 1230. So sleep by 1230 and that’s based off a wake up time of about six 30 to seven little ones at this age might be starting to either not to start a bit later, like 1245 or one nap is depends on the kiddo, but it can be anywhere from an hour and a half to two hours or so at this age.
And then again, it depends on the kiddo, but the week window, before bed could be anywhere from, it really depends four to five and a half hours or so after bedtime.
Betty said, will the recording be sent out? Yes, absolutely. Well, and the one from Dr. Dina that happened last week will also be sent out. Okay. And let me see,
Melanie does teething pain actually cause wake ups or is that an old wives tale?
I love this question Millie. So on the whole teething is uncommonly the cause of sleep disruption.
So what that means is for the most part, we, as parents are trying to figure out why sleep is going off the rails. And we sort of assign that to teeth. And when that’s not usually the case, I will tell you that solid A-plus independent sleepers with excellent sleep habits.
Teething rarely bothers them to the point where it’s actually going to affect their sleep.
So yeah, mostly an old wives tale. I can share more with you on this. Have so much to say on this, but teething is uncommonly the cause of sleep disruptions, usually other things that are going on.
Emma, thank you, Rosie. My pleasure,
Melanie, where can we find more details about parent playbook? What is the cost?
Yeah, let me just pop that in for you and oh, there it is. And the cost is a monthly cost or you can join for three months at a time or you can join for a year at a time. And the cost is a little bit different depending on that. So it’s usually 39 USD per month. Or if you go quarterly,
it ends up being 35 per month. If you go annually, it ends up being 30 per month.
So I’ll just pop that in for you. And there’s no long-term commitment at all. You can cancel that at any time. Okay.
And my, I said, how can I teach my two and a half month old to be an independent steeper?
So Maya at this age, what I like to do with little ones. And if you do join the parent playbook, by the way, as soon as you join, there’s tons of sleep coaching methods that you can use that I’ve written for you to use for newborns, for older kids, for toddlers, but for newborns at this age, Maya, what I like to do is gradually wean off what they need to fall asleep.
So let’s say your little one is starting from the point of rocking to steep. We’re going to gradually move toward less and less movement until we’re just holding them. And then, and then we’re actually moving away from holding them to steep, to just putting them down when they’re just as deep.
And we’re moving away from that to helping them fall asleep while you’re doing something like vocal and touch support while they’re staying in their bassinet or grip, and eventually just putting them down awake and they’re able to fall asleep again.
I say that quickly, it’s a process. It’s not easy. It takes work and time and patience and commitment, but a two and a half months old, you can absolutely do that in a very age appropriate, gentle hands-on way and get your little one to be falling asleep a week from a week quite quite well.
So when you use that gradual method, I just talked about, you’ve got to think about what does my little one need to fall asleep and how do I get them to fall asleep from awake, by decreasing the amount of help that I give them over time. If you use that kind of gradual method, especially for those of you who really don’t want to do sleep training traditionally, like you think about cry it out and you think I, that really doesn’t sit well with me when they’re in the first three to four months of life, this kind of process takes us about two to three weeks, but it’s important to know that as they get older, that kind of process takes longer.
So you have to kind of be in it for the long run.
So I always say so between three, you know, from zero to three to four months, it’s going to be about two, three weeks from about four to six months. It’s going to take us maybe six to eight weeks. And then six months beyond this might be a two to three month project. This is why I work with my clients on three month packages.
A lot of times, because I do get a lot of families who want to do things more gradually and less rip the bandaid off kind of approach.
You know? So I would say at two and a half months, that’s the best thing to do, identify what it is that they need and gradually wean from that.
Okay. Alejandro, you said three month old wondering is it okay to allow naps longer than two hours?
Good question. Trying to establish 7:30 AM. Wake up time and seven 30 bedtime. Usually there are four naps for second app tends to be the longest. They could be up to three hours.
I don’t cap it as they don’t like to wake her up. Any thoughts? Is it okay to change very the white noise music from time to time. So generally speaking all a hundred, if your nighttime sleep is solid, you’re in love with your nighttime. See if she’s falling asleep independently, everything is good. Don’t fix. What’s not broken. However, if you have things that you could improve at night, like she’s not settling that well at the time she’s not settling independently or she’s waking up more than, than you would like her to.
Then I would absolutely cap that upset no more than two hours in the day. For sure. None of us like waking up sleeping babies, but waking up sleeping babies is very appropriate and needed at times to make sure that we’re maintaining the right level of sleep pressure for the entire 24 hour period. And to make sure that we’re prioritizing nighttime sleep because nighttime sleep is the most important.
It’s the most restorative. And it’s the most important for the whole family too. Cause adults, usually we’re getting all of our sleep at night, right? We’re not napping. You said, is it okay to change very the white noise music from time to time? So here’s what I recommend why always is great for the first couple of months of life, because it mimics the sound of the room.
But as of about three to six months old or so painful, it becomes much more beneficial. So people always is like the sound of the ocean, the sound of rain. It’s very, it’s a different kind of level of intensity. If it mixes high and low intensity high and low, what is it called now?
I’ve totally forgotten, but a mix of high and low frequencies. Sorry. Frequencies of sound. And it helps to get little ones into that deeper sleep a little bit more. Okay. And you said.
Amy said, how long should my three-year-old nap for during the day? If I want that earlier bedtime, you are amazing. This is just what we needed.
Oh, it’s my pleasure, Amy. Okay. Let me remind myself what we just talked about. I see. Okay. So at three years old for your little one, what I would do, I would start with no more than an hour and a half and see what that does to your bedtime. If it helps with your bedtime. Great. If it doesn’t then shave off another 15 minutes and see what that does to your bedtime.
I always like to do things in 15 minute increments every few days. Hopefully that helps.
Jesse said hi. I have almost three year old twins who usually nap one to 3:30 PM. Sometimes one twin doesn’t nap until two ish. They share a room. Naps will end. I know, but would love to prolong naps as long as possible. I have a two month old and that time during the day without twins is really nice. Should I wake both? No matter what at three 30 and pushed by time and keep naps. They’re in bed by eight and wake at six 15.
Okay. So Jess, in your situation, I would totally encourage you to keep the nap as long as your nighttime sleep is okay. Right. Which it sounds like it is. And you’re okay with bedtime at eight, then just maintain that nap for now, until it starts to affect your bedtime. Once it starts to affect that time. And like I said, bed is getting later than eight 30 or it’s getting too late for your preferences. Then you want to start cutting that down with a two month old during the day.
I totally get it in twins. Totally understand.
Okay. And then I think I have time for one last question, which I have,
I can’t believe I made through everything five months old. He falls asleep nursing sometimes. Is that okay?
Thanks again. This is up to you. So if you’re okay with nursing to sleep nursing back to sleep and the situation that you have don’t fix, what’s not broken.
That is your choice. You do not have a sleep issue, unless you say you do. I will never tell you that you have a sleep issue, but if there are things you could improve, like you’re getting lots of overnight wakings or it’s taking a long time to get little one to sleep or whatever it is. You just want to change the situation.
Then that’s the point at which you want to change it, right? That’s the point at which you should take because you want to change it. Hopefully that makes sense. So I’m never here to tell you not to nurse little ones to sleep, but if you are aiming for better overnight sleep more solids, the fewer wakings, a faster put down, then getting them to seat more independently is really great.
So just remember these are my four magical keys to great sleep. They are sorry, and perfectly, super conditioned environment in age appropriate sleep schedule, a consistent bedtime routine and independence. Now did I paste? I didn’t do that. So let me now give you the bundle as well. Let me give you the link to the bundle.
It’s super affordable, crab dollars USD. If you’re interested, you know, you don’t need to, I talk to you a lot about refunds and schedules today, but if you’re interested in more information, so really good package of information week windows, sleep schedules and longer naps information. So how you actually, you know, use different methods to get longer naps once your little one is an independent steeper.
So, you know, go there and check it out.
Also, I’m going to leave my email address. Hello at parent Facebook. Got you. If you have any questions about anything we talked about today, but the membership about the bundle or the blogs that I posted, please let me know. Please reach out and let me know.
But otherwise I just want to thank everyone for joining me today and thanks for all the great questions.
I’ve really enjoyed this as I usually do. And I hope everybody has a wonderful day. All right. So thank you. And thanks for joining me. Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye.